Curse

zwei2stein · Nov 19, 2009, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phineas

Now, if you could just point me to where I can find these guys in FoW...

Indeed. FoW / UW uses mostly core skillset and professions because that is all what there was when they were created. Otherwise, they would have removed some prophecies-only skills.

Being mostly core does not imply that goal was to create core-only area.

A/Rt/D/P mobs are not out of question.

Abedeus · Nov 19, 2009, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phineas

Now, if you could just point me to where I can find these guys in FoW...

What he means that they already added some Factions skills to the UW mobs, there is no reason why they shouldn't add some Factions or Nightfall skills to FoW.

qvtkc · Nov 19, 2009, 02:06 PM // 14:06

"Fixing" areas is pointless. First off, farmers are not a problem, only a symptom. Second, even if they were a problem, that "solution" would not solve it, since they just move on to the next farm. Thirdly, it screws over the area for anyone who wishes to play it legitimately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

To quote BA's definitive piece on this subject:

Well even though he likely didn't mean it that way, he is actually literally correct on all three points:

SF is the bane of GW (overly easy farming + dungeon/mission running)
Nerfing it would solve (almost) all problems
stfu

Deakon · Nov 19, 2009, 02:36 PM // 14:36

I've been playing GW for 2 1/2 years now. I've been enjoying it tremendously. I didn't realize how horrible things were until I joined this forum. All those speed-clears are ruining my fun because... um... It's affecting my... um... uh... It's just ruining the game and needs to be stopped! Nerf SF so I can go back to 2 hours of rezzing party members in UW so they can rage quit halfway thru. Yeah... That's the ticket.

Abedeus · Nov 19, 2009, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

I've been playing GW for 2 1/2 years now. I've been enjoying it tremendously. I didn't realize how horrible things were until I joined this forum. All those speed-clears are ruining my fun because... um... It's affecting my... um... uh... It's just ruining the game and needs to be stopped! Nerf SF so I can go back to 2 hours of rezzing party members in UW so they can rage quit halfway thru. Yeah... That's the ticket.

So... you want idiot-proof builds because you don't have a good guild and think PuGs fail. And you are blind to see how this affects the economy for the honest players.

Elemental Swords pre-overfarming - 100k + ecto, depending on how low the req was. NOTE: Req 13 and 12 were still really popular as caster weapons.

After overfarming - ...anyone still buys those, except for req 9's?

So if you get a nice Elemental Sword and hope to sell it for a lot, prepare to be disappointed.

Deakon · Nov 19, 2009, 04:06 PM // 16:06

So it boils down to greed. I think I understand fully now. Thank you!

Abedeus · Nov 19, 2009, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

So it boils down to greed. I think I understand fully now. Thank you!

Yeah. If you are so greedy that you want the shortcut to fortune, then yeah, you probably do need SF.

Devika · Nov 19, 2009, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Playing 4 or 5 classes out of 10 is still better than 1 out of 10.

Unless it's changed since I last did a FoWSC (which admittedly was quite a while back) let's see.

Assassin x3
Warrior x2
Necromancer x1
Ritualist x1
Monk x1

5 classes out of 10.

Pretty sure Elementalists could replace some of the Assassin roles at some point aswell, although I'm not sure if it's still possible. Rangers can also take over the Ritualists role too if needs be.

That boosts it up to 7 classes out of 10 leaving out Paragons, Dervishes, and Mesmers.

miriforst · Nov 19, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

well i think fowsc is at least better than uwsc.

fowsc IS op but uwsc was sick.

its when a single proffesion rickroll over all other in a certain portion of the game and its barely worth playing anything else in that portion.

and i agree that 6/10 IS better hitrate than 2/10 proffesions

consets mad the thing even stranger with now being perma with any secondary prof you like (i bet they even didnt need the vale necro if they ran the A/N variant.)

its basicly a skill that was suposed to be used as a backup skill if you got in trouble, but people got it perma and suddenly a-net could simply not remove it since about 90% of the factions characters (not really but it felt like that :P) was assasins.

its a skill that makes you immortal against everything except 1% of the skills and still gives you the ability do dash out lot of dammage.

so im not against fowsc where you atleast have more proffesions to choose from and actually gives different roles to different characters.

any other person from any other game would stare at your screen and say "wtf why arent you even taking a single dammage if it is such a hardcore area as you say

?"

Little O B S I · Nov 19, 2009, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Ah... gottcha... people who actually play the game are bad for the game.

As opposed to people who get run through all the content, then bitch about their not being any content and are bored and quit.

I think you'll find that it's the people who get bored and bitch and whine that get us the new content. It's a bit like meta changes in PvP; without a new meta there is no new challenge to compete against. People stay on because changes are going to have to be made and they hold out for them.

People who "actually play the game" are neither here nor there. They aren't particularly good and they aren't particularly bad, at least in PvE.

At the end of the day its the age of the game that is failing us here. You can't expect a 4 year old game to be receiving the same amount of new content or dedication that it once had when it was alive. It's dying out so let it go peacefully, and appreciate the fact that people are actually trying to improve it ever so slightly.

p.s. make SF a stance

coil · Nov 19, 2009, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

So... you want idiot-proof builds because you don't have a good guild and think PuGs fail. And you are blind to see how this affects the economy for the honest players.

Elemental Swords pre-overfarming - 100k + ecto, depending on how low the req was. NOTE: Req 13 and 12 were still really popular as caster weapons.

because sc's killed ele swords...no, eotn killed ele swords, along with many other "rare" skins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devika

That boosts it up to 7 classes out of 10 leaving out Paragons, Dervishes, and Mesmers.

para and dervish are core to fow physway which is still very quick (sometimes better than a pug sc [and it doesnt use SF]) and "fun" cuz youre bashing stuff to death. and for mes', get in a friend group and go me/n mop....not really hard and just as fast.

again i fail to see what the "problem" is with a 4 yr old area besides those people that are too morally superior to try a new build crying about those that can successfully make a build more efficient.

N E D M · Nov 19, 2009, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little O B S I

make SF a stance

ummmm

first of all, ever hear of dwarven stability? it was already pointed out IN THIS VERY THREAD. to YOU.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...1&postcount=48

make it a F O R M skill. Shadow FORM. durrrrrrr

Life Bringing · Nov 19, 2009, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

PuGs naturally go where the pastures are greenest. Right now UW/FoWSC are the best when it comes to rewards versus time spent. Nerf UW so it's slower and less profitable and they'll gradually move on. DoASC, SoOSC and whatever else is on the horizon will eventually fill this void. Then we can see more of these threads. YAY!

Are you kidding me? DoA is the best farm in the entire game. So many times better than fow/uw that it's ridiculous. The problem is that all the problems that pugs have in fow are a thousand times worse in doa. Pugs can't ball well, spike well, heal well, or follow instructions. There's a reason pugs don't do doa, and it's not because of lack of profits

mage767 · Nov 19, 2009, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

Are you kidding me? DoA is the best farm in the entire game. So many times better than fow/uw that it's ridiculous. The problem is that all the problems that pugs have in fow are a thousand times worse in doa. Pugs can't ball well, spike well, heal well, or follow instructions. There's a reason pugs don't do doa, and it's not because of lack of profits

DOA is not profitable enough - pugs who get runned only do it for the Hall.
DOA has no 'elite' skin drops either
DOA gems fell from their starting 50K+ each to now 2-5k each

Contrast this to:
FOW/UWSC which has some really rare drops.
Quicker.
Shards/Ectos have certainly dropped in price but not by 10x factor, and are always in demand.

Verdict: DOA is not good enough moneywise unless you belong to a guild which does quad-runs in HM and does not fail. Oh, and I bitched Mallyx over 100 times already...

Abedeus · Nov 19, 2009, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by coil

because sc's killed ele swords...no, eotn killed ele swords, along with many other "rare" skins.

Invinci builds, SF included, destroyed it. It made those areas with swords too easy.

Golgotha · Nov 19, 2009, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

So it boils down to greed. I think I understand fully now. Thank you!

It has nothing to do with greed. It's all about elite standing and feeling special.

bloodvayne · Nov 19, 2009, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

So if you get a nice Elemental Sword and hope to sell it for a lot, prepare to be disappointed.

Wait, you're saying this makes farming a bad thing?

People generally make money from farming, or from getting lucky in this game.
Not everyone has amazing luck, so farming is the only good answer to make money fast.

When rare drops are actually considered "rare", they sell for a lot. The only people that will buy these rare drops... are people who farmed and got the cash to pay for it.
Since, in the end, things are going to have to be farmed, no matter what, buy somebody, isn't it generally more logical to farm the high-end item? This makes the rare drop a lot more common, but isn't that better for everyone? Everyone that wanted one anyways.

Golgotha · Nov 19, 2009, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloodvayne

Wait, you're saying this makes farming a bad thing?

People generally make money from farming, or from getting lucky in this game.
Not everyone has amazing luck, so farming is the only good answer to make money fast.

When rare drops are actually considered "rare", they sell for a lot. The only people that will buy these rare drops... are people who farmed and got the cash to pay for it.
Since, in the end, things are going to have to be farmed, no matter what, buy somebody, isn't it generally more logical to farm the high-end item? This makes the rare drop a lot more common, but isn't that better for everyone? Everyone that wanted one anyways.

This boils down to nothing more than the elitist players wanting to keep their haves from the have nots. Any avenue that allows other players, whom are undeserving in their eyes, to attain items they've played to get needs to be shut down. Period.

They cry about balance and PUG's, but at the end of the day every counterpoint is based around either a crafting item's worth (shards, ecto, etc), an item used as currency's worth (ecto) or a once rare item only the hardcore player has attained. It has nothing to do with balance and everything to do with keeping themselves on a pedestal over the average GW player, who are inferior to their obvious talents.

The only balance they're worried about is their gold balance.

Tramp · Nov 19, 2009, 09:42 PM // 21:42

If all the sc boys hit FOW now instead of UW wont that drive down the prices of shards to the floor as well as elf tonics and obsidian edges? That will make FOW armor easy to afford for the masses and make some rare items cheap so everyone can afford them. That sounds like a good thing for most people. The new fowsc'ers will only quit when it is a bad deal for them. Sounds like a win-win for everyone to me. Non sc'ers get cheap fow armor and cheap toys, sc'ers get to make profit until the excess is gone and they move elsewhere. I fail to see any losers here unless you look backwards at people who paid more in the past for some items. But you never evaluate finances looking into history, only forward, that is economics 101. I dont sc, never have sc'd, have no flipping clue how these guys are even doing it. But objectively, looking forward, it seems that there are no losers. Sc'ers win, people who want FOW armor/skins win, and anyone with some item to sell wins as this will create and/or free up extra money for people to buy stuff from others.

Trickle up economics 101. It worked in the roaring 80's/early 90's in the real world, it will work here too. (think of time spent playing as a tax and relate that back to the real world economics.) The "time tax" on sc'ers is lowered, so they earn more: a win. This drives fow item prices down making it more affordable: a win. The extra money earned by the sc'ers and money saved by people who now can buy FOW armor/toys cheaper is spent on other items in the economy from hero gear to rare weapons. So anyone who finds or has an item for sale can more easily find a buyer: a win. Anyone who can play the game, find an item to sell (fow or not), will win (think entrepreneurs). If you sit on your butt and do nothing but whine that everyone is making money except you... you lose (think welfare recipients). That is economics 101, trickle up, real world analogies. The only losers in a SF world (assuming that is what they are using) are the people who do not play the game, do not find items to sell, and just sit around whining. You do not have to be doing speed clearing to benefit. All boats will rise in a rising tide. All you have to do is stop expecting welfare checks to be sent in the mail cuz it isnt gonna happen.

As one further anecdote, I never made so much ectos trading as when ecto prices crashed and went to 3-3.5k each. The exact opposite occured when uwsc was killed and ectos went to 6-6.5k. Trading became tough as people stopped spending. Think about it, when taxes are high (time spent to make money is up because uwsc is harder) people do not spend. When taxes are low (time spent to make money is down because there is something to speed clear) then they go out and spend, baby, spend.

I say hurry up and speed clear all you want! I want to save money buying cheap fow armor so I can stop slumming in my consolate docks armor. I want you to earn lots of money and feel very rich because I have some nice rare weapons to sell you. You earned it, and I have some bling for you to buy. ;-)

Symeon · Nov 19, 2009, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golgotha

This boils down to nothing more than the elitist players wanting to keep their haves from the have nots. Any avenue that allows other players, whom are undeserving in their eyes, to attain items they've played to get needs to be shut down. Period.

They cry about balance and PUG's, but at the end of the day every counterpoint is based around either a crafting item's worth (shards, ecto, etc), an item used as currency's worth (ecto) or a once rare item only the hardcore player has attained. It has nothing to do with balance and everything to do with keeping themselves on a pedestal over the average GW player, who are inferior to their obvious talents.

The only balance they're worried about is their gold balance.

I am sure there are some people whom this applies to, but for the majority I don't think it is the concern. Many people, myself included, couldn't care less about the value of ectoplasm, nor how much money SF users make or how fast they grind their title tracks. In my case, I don't have a long list of personal achievements to complain about others reaching them easier than I did. My concern here is not other people's gameplay, nor is it how other players are affecting mine. It is about the the game. I want the game to resemble what it was in its days of greatness, at the least. Of course there was always the potential for it be something much greater. The mere existence of a PvE invincibility button means that Guild Wars can never return to such a status in my eyes. This game is no longer Guild Wars, even if elements of its original state remain.

Your own argument is also very easy to fire back; is the sole concern of the SF defenders not simply the rate at which their stacks of ectoplasm accumulate? Almost every point made seems to revolve around SF being 'ignorable' - if you don't use it, why care? Can't you just play the game how you like it and leave others alone? How does it affect your gameplay? - Aren't these all just an attempt to drive attention away from your precious method of gaining wealth?